I will try for one final time to get my point across in a manner that wont get me labelled a "thick c*nt".



My original post was to point out why I believe there is some resentment on these boards towards Widnes. I think this resentment is born out of a gripe against the RFL, because there is a perception that they are picking the 14 clubs they want, with the actual application process being a redundant exercise. In 2008, this included Salford and Celtic, next year it is likely to include Widnes. So yes, I believe the RFL have managed the whole process badly.



My "crying at Widnes fans" is based on the fact that I have read a number of posts that, imo, seem to come across as the usual "i'm alright Jack" attitude that we have become used to from Super League fans.



The reason I mentioned Catalans, Celtic, and Paris comes back to me trying to explain why I believe there is resentment being displayed by fans of other clubs. I was not trying to compare the clubs, but suggesting that given the history, maybe Widnes fans could empathise with some people supporting the clubs that the RFL don't seem to give a toss about.



I still need some convincing that to suggest no non-super league club will ever submit a franchise bid that is better than the one you are submitting this year is a tad arrogant.



This is my opinion, and it all relates to the backlash against your club's success rather than the merits of your Super League application. Feel free to disagree, but if your response is likely to reduce into another rant of personal abuse, don't bother responding.

Salford don't spend up to the full cap. There is sufficient room in the Super League cap that some clubs spend up to it and some don't. They also have the stability to invest sufficiently in youth and build a team that way. A cap is a luxury that they have. They are fighting over who wins the League but all are relatively comfortable in their position.



The current Championship cap is at a low enough level that most if not all the clubs spend up to it. This was never the case when we actually had promotion and relegation. This is the point, people are not just arguing for a return to P & R, they want a version that we've never had before that not only hinders clubs like Widnes, but helps their own club. They want a version where all clubs effectively have the same chance to win the league regardless of circumstances, this is effectively Communism. Clubs aren't allowed to take advantage of their advantages.

Here's the point, they come across that way if you're looking at.



The fact is that Widnes are only really ever spoken about by other clubs when we're being attacked and undermined. The reason we are being attacked is because we are clear favourites to be promoted. Of course Widnes fans will get defensive, especially when the attacks are so ignorant of the reality of the situation. We get criticised for playing to the rules that the RFL stated. We get criticised for our on the field performance when we spent up to the cap as did many other teams whilst trying to being youth through instead of higher profile players. We also seem to get the brunt of the anti-RFL anti-licensing crowd.



So you're often reading Widnes fans defending themselves against fans of other clubs. You class this as arrogant but I wouldn't.

Your Catalans, and Paris analogy just doesn’t scan. They were shoehorned into SL under very different circumstances.



Celtic Crusaders were clearly not ready to be given a licence, so that doesn’t work either.





Therefore different again. This is most peoples perception. We are favourites for a totally different reason than Catalans, Celtic, and Paris. We are favourites because we clearly have the best bid.







Your bitterness and envy will never allow you think any other way. I say this because you haven’t even bothered to acknowledge the context in which the statement was made. It isn’t even an accurate representation of what I actually wrote.



Which was:





Let me help you to think this through. You now need to answer these simple questions, which I posed to ‘Soss’, honestly.





What is wrong about these points I have raised, and how does it make me arrogant?

<Double post>

Very touching lot of posts. Stop trying to defend your Club and/or saying your the only Club which meets the SL requirements. It's an independent group within the RFL who will decide if Widnes is a suitable club for promotion and your posts are of no help towards this result.



Personally I have no view on your application except to say would prefer Toulouse get the nod.

Thas, bye now

financial figures you have posted



The vast majority of fans , even those that have questioned those 2 subjects have admiited you should get a SL spot on merit

What a pointless post.



There's nothing worse than somebody who doesn't see the point in forums yet comes on one to say so.

What I was saying was the only time fans of other clubs generally come across Widnes is on a franchising/licensing thread. These often descend into arguments between those that think Widnes should get a license and those that don't.



The bit in bold is the reason why it happens so often. Too often people come up with the simplistic argument that Widnes shouldn't get a spot because we have finished 5th and the winners should go up. This then leads to Widnes fans (and others) putting them straight because it's a nonsense argument. Whether you support P&R or not, we haven't had P&R in place so you can't criticise Widnes for playing the game.



The bit in bold is the reason it rankles most. The cap is lowered so that teams can compete with Widnes and create the fantastically competitive league that we have now. Yet the fact that Widnes cannot dominate the league under this cap for some reason makes people think that we shouldn't go up at the expense of other clubs that score much poorer everywhere else.



Widnes fans aren't arrogant in the slightest, or no more so than any other clubs. However when your constantly defending yourselves against stupid claims like those, it could easily appear arrogant. If there were no stupid claims there would be no 'arrogance.'

there there, of course it is