Joe , just asking , what dream is it we are now ' living ' ?

I disagree. If a venue is unattractive in terms of the event, people won't go. Not everything has to sell out to show you could get more elsewhere. Otherwise why would we go to Wembley?





True. Could the RFL make more noise about the issues though?



 

You do realise that the list isn't of MY reasons (I'm country before club)? It's a summary of everyone's reasons I've been reading.

There are people that are so disillusioned with the RFL that they don't want to support their events, including the international set-up. It's not a case of a Championship player being good enough for England.





No it doesn't.

Mid-season internationals are on on the same weekend as SL.

End of season internationals are on the same days that amateur teams play.



People are forced to make a choice.





Because their club loyalties by far oversight their country loyalties as there I'd by far more emphasis on SL than internationals. Until this changes, too many people will do the things that spoil it for those that DO actually support their country and the people playing for it.





But without enough games to prove himself, many won't get the chance to see the results of his work.





But Union have had a big enough international programme to get used to these players. And I disagree that we know now more than ever. There are more games on TV now, but the audience is smaller as Premier Sport isn't a very big station. There used to be more games on Sky than there is now.





I disagree with this. I think it's more to do with other sports putting emphasis on international sport and the media following suit. We don't, so why should the fans and media care?

I do appreciate your summary of expressed opinions, and I think there's a lot of insight here.



There's some odd ones, though. Nobody on the planet thinks football or union are currently administered well, but that never stops fans supporting England.



Totally agree about the dearth of quality internationals, and the potential value of England as a brand everyone can get behind to bring new people, in Newcastle or Swindon or Plymouth, into a real 'supporters' relationship with the game.



But. Only 3 teams are at the highest level, so what do we do? Spend millions on a 10 year programme to make the 5 nations into an equitable competition, SL franchises is Dublin, Glasgow and Cardiff?



I said we stop for international competitions, which we do. Union keeps it's club game running through the 6 nations and autumn internationals. Footy stops even for friendlies.



Recent internationals have been held in Leigh, Doncaster and Headingley. Would you really suggest fans are not buying out all the tickets there because the grounds aren't good enough?



I think Emgland and international RL in general, are massively important, and this discussion is a useful vehicle, even if I don't agree with every point muted...!

I think there's a difference between administered well and administered fair.

Fans in the lower leagues feel they aren't getting a fair crack of the whip. I don't think that's the same for football and union fans.





We need another French team in the SL. And with more Welsh players coming through, we need SL to pick these up. This us only going to happen if that "shop window" is there of international rugby. We might stuff them at the moment, but it gives us a chance to look at different players and combinations. We also have the Exiles as a true tester before the Aussies and Kiwis come. Then there's the island teams if we wanted to tour mid-season. There ARE options for us, but we don't take them (not saying that we should or that there aren't reasons, but there is an option).





The community game doesn't. There will be hundreds of amateur games going on on the same day as each 4N game. The people that support our game will be too busy organising their own clubs. This may change next year with the move to summer, but it is an issue.





I never said the ground wasn't good enough, I said small towns and small grounds. Leeds isn't a small town, but the ground isn't up to international standard, is it? And it does put people off, even if only subliminally. I reckon if you held the Exiles game at Elland Road, you'd get a much bigger crowd because it would feel more like an event (unlike Headingley, which fans would feel it as just another game), this despite Headingley not selling out.

Leigh hosted Eng/Fra last year and got a pitiful crowd. It didn't feel like an event.

We've taken a game to Wembley this year. It'll probably get a bigger crowd than the 3 group games from 2009 put together (none sold out). So what does this tell you? That fans weren't interested in 2009? Or that the ground choices are tired and uneventful?





This is why I wanted to bring it up. Most of the issues on the list aren't my own opinion. People aren't meant to agree with all of them as they are personal reasons. I'm interested to see if there are more reasons other than the ones I've said. The RFL need to understand the problems before they can think of solutions.

As much as I love my club I feel country is more important as it if we have a successful national side then Rugby League should hopefully get higher media coverage. nathancroucher.tumblr.com/

As much as I love my club I feel country is more important as it if we have a successful national side then Rugby League should hopefully get higher media coverage. nathancroucher.tumblr.com/

I am very much country 1st, club 2nd because I can see the wider benefits to the game if we had a viable international competition + successful England team in terms of general PR etc than if my club side wins a comp.



I however am in the minority I'm afraid and as most fans become fans of our sport because they follow a team and dont become fans of the game by watching internationals.



I think therefore the majority of fans would prefer to see their club who they have followed for a number of years win a competition and see the International game as an add on, which potentially has a detrimental impact on their club i.e. if players are injured or worn out.



The only way I see a change in peoples attitudes is to provide a credible international calendar. At the moment though England sit in a position where certainly Australia and probably NZ are too strong, which means we have no chance of winning an international tournament and on the flip side England are way to strong for other nations such as France and Wales etc.



The public arnt stupid and when we play in the 4 nations we rely on the hardcore League faithful to attend where the majority either arnt overly bothered or think we havnt got much chance in winning. The erosion of RL in the mainstream media also means that almost no-one in the general sporting public are aware of RL Internationals or arent bothered by them and therefore wont attend.



The answer therefore is we desperately need countries like Wales and France to set up to become credible RL playing nations and be able to compete with England and perhaps eventually NZ and Australia.



The RFL have desperatley been trying to encourage this to happen with the huge investment made in Wales RL + providing opportunities for the French to raise their standards i.e. allowing and incentivising French domestic teams to enter the Northern Rail + Challenge Cup + Tolouse into Champioship 1. From what I've read they also try to invest and assist whereever possible in the development of RL in other European nations.



Unfortunatley I dont think the NRL have the same attitude. Their focus has been very much focussed on Australian RL only and distractions like the Super League War, the threat of RU, AFL + Soccer and now the independent commission has only made matters worse.



Further expansion of the NRL is on the horizon with Perth + a 2nd team in Brisbane being the most favoured options, which only complements my comments above. The NRL in my opinion could have done alot more to assist in the development of the game in countries such as New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa + the Cook Islands.



IMO another good place to start would be to sort of player eliability once and for all. Players such as Ukaile Uate and Petero Civonceiva should be playing regularly for Fiji not Australia which only weakens their team and makes the international competition less credible. The only way to sort this IMO is that a player at the age of 16 should have to choose which country they wish to represent / are from and once they have chosen they should not be allowed to change.



Not simple answers unfortunatley - we need Wales RL to continue to grow and hence why the Crusaders demise was such a body blow. Lets only hope they will compete in a lower division. We need the French RL to get its act together. the success of the Les Catalans is vital but we need other clubs to start performing to their potential.



We need to raise the standards in England with an increased player pool. This will happen by clubs focussing on youth development rather than overseas players + we need 14 competitive clubs. We need clubs like Salford to start punching above their weight and make inroads into the greater Manchester sporting market + London to finally start being a credible force in SL on the back of home grown talent.



A 2nd NRL franchise in NZ + PNG would massively assist their credability + any other major development in countries such as the USA or Jamaica would only be a good thing.

Country by some margin.



The build up to the Tri-Nations final at Elland Rd in 2004 was perhaps the most excited I've been about any RL game. I genuinely thought there was a chance we could finally nick a trophy, but we ended up getting panned!



Also, the win in Sydney a few years back was one of the happiest I've been after a game - loved the post-match celebrations and aussie baiting in Sydney. Even though it was really a meaningless game, it meant a hell of a lot to the players and the fans out there.



Also, the WCC win over Brisbane in 2001 is perhaps my favourite Saints win of all time.



I desperately, desperately hope I get to see GB/England win a meaningful tournament in my lifetime.



Perhaps I just hate australians!

I have never felt so flat as I did sat in Elland Road at half time that day. Like many fans, I went to that game not with hope but with expectation and it was completely blown away



I loved playing RL and thoroughly enjoy watching it at any level but the only time I get genuinely nervous is when the national team is playing. I watched Great Britain play RL for over 20 years and yet I have no problem transitioning my support to England... I am both English and British so I see no problem with either label



It is without any exaggeration to say that the day I see England/GB win an international tournament will be one of the happiest of my life (I can think of only two to beat it so far!!)

Excellent post pmack17.

But no actual answers to the problem , we all know what the problem is , sorting it is the hard bit

I don't think we leverage the amateur game enough. The RFU have nailed this aspect, with amateur clubs onto a nice little earner for selling international tickets. Good for grass roots, good for the crowd.



However, our own amateur game seems to treat the pro game as the enemy - just another example of the petty parochialism that blights the sport and stops it from moving forward at the pace it deserves to.

The RFL have started doing something along those lines. Bury Broncos for example are doing a 4 Nations package with rewards for selling tickets.