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| Quote Andy Gilder="Andy Gilder"From ten yards away, front on, at full speed, the referee should be able to judge whether a player is a yard in front of another one when both are moving?
Give your head a shake.
Referees are entirely reliant on TJs - who are pretty much in line with play and side on - to advise on offside/onside from kicks. They have the best angle and are best placed to do so.
If the TJ says "I'm not sure", having had the best angle on the incident, what's the referee supposed to do?
Likewise the Swift try. If the referee looks at the TJ to check whether the player had gone into touch as he had the best angle on it, and the TJ says "couldn't tell", the referee has no option than to refer it.
Refs get a lot of stick for referring try decisions upstairs, but we all want to see the correct calls being made don't we? Or would we rather head back into the wilderness of the "good old days" when players were dropping the ball in mid-air and it was still being given as a try? (David Laws - 86 Challenge Cup semi, Des Drummond - 83 JPS Trophy semi as two perfect examples).'"
Touch judges get off very lightly when it comes to fans ridicule. A lot of the time they are the problem why the video ref is overused.
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"I agree entirely with the points about moving off the mark. I've been moaning about it myself and it needs a crackdown next season.
But I couldn't disagree more with the moaning about the video referee. Bottom line is that yesterday, without the video referee, Wire would probably have been awarded at least 3 tries they shouldn't have had. Tonight, without the video ref, Giants would have been denied a try which they should have had. It's legitimate to moan when the video ref gets it wrong - that's inexcusable. But essentially, strip away the led-by-Stevo's-nose whinges about the timing, and all you really have is people complaining that the right decisions are given. Yet I'd lay a fairly large bet that those exact same people would absolutely slate the first ref to award a try on the field against their team which big screen replays then showed should have been disallowed.
If you want to do away with the video ref, then you HAVE to remove the big screen from any ground. It would be utterly unworkable - possibly even dangerous - to demand refs make try decisions alone in all circumstances, only then to have the incident replayed from 3 different angles the ref didn't have, in slow motion the ref didn't experience, at super zoom focus the ref can't ever use. Especially as you have fans so unreasonable that they think decisions like Myler being a yard offside are simple, when that would have been in reality a very very difficult call to make for actual real people.
However, I think this is all a nonsense. Maybe some would rather have a faster decision because you don't care whether it's correct or not. Personally, I'd rather have a more accurate decision than a faster one.'"
Video refs are essential and should be at all games imo. I just think on-field officials need to use them less and go with their instincts more because they're often correct. Also this "I've got a try"/"I've got no try" is pathetic and needs scrapping. The video ref should only be used if the ref hasn't actually got a clue.
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| Quote Mugwump="Mugwump"If we are going to continue using video referees I think it's about time we changed the ruling so that all replays are at game-speed.'"
I think slow motion ones are absolutely essential in some circumstances. But game-speed should always be considered too, not just a slow-mo on its own.
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| Impressed by the posters who believe that players should be allowed to break the rules and complain when the players do and are caught or not caught.
Seems more prevelant depending upon which team they follow
It's a bit like speeding on the roads. Everyone does it but then loads whinge when they caught, or say it's unfair that people /speed cameras are there to disuade them from speeding in the 1st place.
If you get away with it then don't blame the authorities for YOUR actions, but you then can't blame them if you do get caught. It's a risk/reward scenario and your choice.
People have to accept that people make mistakes and also great judgment calls and decisions in all walks of life. It's just the way it is.
I will back a match officials judgment reagrding the laws of the game over a players, coaches or fans judgment every time. Not because they will get it right everytime, but because their prime function is to apply the laws. Everyone else has a different prime function and they will make mistakes as well. It's human nature and will never change.
People are asking for perfection ( by their standards) where none can ever exist. It's impossible unless either machines that are programmed play the game or the game isn't played at all. Anything inbetween has to many variables. That is the hard part for people to accept.
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| Quote BuckleyStreetWire="BuckleyStreetWire"This is spot on though. Moving off the mark is one of the biggest things that needs cleaning up (second refs would help with that, and with helping the ref make decisions without the video ref too) as well as the diving and pretending to be being held down.'"
why do we need a 2nd ref? just penalise the offenders until it is stopped!
and while we're at it, penalise players who not only move off the mark but move into the markers enabling a quick scoot.
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| Well, quite. Go back and apply video slo-mo to matches from the past, and half the tries every scored would be disallowed. VR operating at game speed is a great idea, I think. Can't see it ever happening, though. But what it would do is largely equalise decision-making on tries from other on-field decisions made by the officials on the pitch. At the moment, try-scoring situations are subject to extra scrutiny that midfield play isn't.
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| Quote meast="meast"why do we need a 2nd ref? just penalise the offenders until it is stopped!'"
But it won't, it's human nature to stretch the laws to breaking point. See Hicks penalising Ellis & Koppy in the last 5 minutes. Something you seem to question.
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| things like that are always debatable, walking off the mark isn't
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| Start penalising every team for every misdemeanour, resulting in 54-37 penalty counts and the coaches and players should get the message how much they're antics spoil the game ....it will never happen but imagine if it did !
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| I can't believe people are now complaining about the correct call being given.
This thread should be bookmarked and framed for mind numbing stupidity.
Yes we need faster less accurate and effectively wrong calls.
Whilst the rest of the world is moving to the Internet of things web3.0. Rlfans want to turn off the TV.
Shall we roll back to weaving by hand and medical attention by the village wannabee too.
Let's have rugby at 300 aside whilst we are at it and games that go on for days with no ref at all.
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| Quote bewareshadows="bewareshadows"300 aside whilst we are at it and games that go on for days with no ref at all.'"
other sports......
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| Quote GIANT DAZ="GIANT DAZ"Start penalising every team for every misdemeanour, resulting in 54-37 penalty counts and the coaches and players should get the message how much they're antics spoil the game ....it will never happen but imagine if it did !'"
No they won't. Coaches like Wane & Anderson & muppets on here will ridicule referees not players.
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